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  • SharkyForums.Com - Print: My $5000 future PC (brag about your system)

    Find this topic on Sharky Forums

    My $5000 future PC....
    By Fwank September 18, 2000, 09:33 PM

    Updated info: I have updated what I am thinking of getting. First, after finding out my idea wouldn't work I took out the second monitor which gave up $300 which I replaced with another 256mb of RAM. Although I have had no problems with Windows 2000 on my current PC after reading up on it for 2 hours I have decided to go with ME. Besides Office Depot gives $300 worth of useless crap if you buy ME. Ill give all the greetings card maker, label maker, atlas, etc junk to my Mom because she likes that shit. Ill keep the free speakers and webcam. I also chose which 3D card I will be getting. I still might go with a ATI Radeon 32MB DDR though. I also added a MPEG-2/DVD decoder card. I might change to a Microsoft IntelliMouse Explorer depending on which feels better in my hand. I just hate to spend $40 on a mouse considering in the last two years I have broke six or eight. Unless anyone notices something I should change all I need is to pick out which scanner and printer to get. I am willing to spend $500 total on the printer and scanner.

    $700.00, Processor: AMD Athlon Thunderbird 1.1GHz Socket A CPU
    $150.00, Motherboard: ASUS A7V
    $250.00, Video Card: Hercules 3D Prophet II GTS GeForce2 32MB DDR RAM TV OUT DVD Playback
    $65.00, MPEG-2/DVD decoder card: RealMagic Hollywood Plus PCI
    $640.00, RAM: Corsair PC133 CAS2 256mb x 2
    $130.00, DVD-ROM: Pioneer DVD-115 16x DVD-ROM
    $290.00, CD-RW: Plexwriter 12/10/32 CD-RW
    $200.00, Hard Drive: IBM Deskstar 75GXP 45.0GB HD ATA-5 7200RPM 3.5LP 9.5MS
    $1060.00, Monitor: Sony CPD-G500 21IN 19.8VIS FD .24MM AG 2048X1536
    $250.00, Speakers: Klipsch Pro Media speakers
    $150.00, Sound Card: Sound Blaster Live! Platinum SC 32BIT Live Drive
    $190.00, Case: 3D Cool Tornado 1000 Mid-Tower ATX w/300W Power Supply
    $10.00, Floppy Drive: Samsung 3.5 1.44MB
    $25.00, Keyboard: Microsoft Natural Keyboard Elite
    $40.00, Mouse: Logitech Optical Mouseman Wheel USB PS/2
    $85.00, Modem: 3Com #5685 56K v.90(Longing for next July when I can get a cable)
    $20.00, Mouse Pad: sUrface 1030
    $180, OS: Windows ME
    $???.??, Printer: ???????
    $???.??, Scanner: ???????
    Total(without printer/scanner): 4430

    By Bassthe1st September 18, 2000, 09:48 PM

    I would suggest you change the GeForce II for a ATI Radeon 64Mg VIVO (or AIW) since I think it is of better quality. And why the hell are you getting a second monitor ? If you want to use both at the same time, you'll need a bad 3D Matrox or a slow Geforce II MX; but I really think you need a second monitor when wou have a 21".

    By joe September 18, 2000, 09:51 PM

    I'd drop the CPU a notch or two since the price premium isn't worth it.
    Abit KT7, but A7V will do.
    Natural Pro keyboard
    Any Epson or HP printer.
    Maybe Umax scanner, but there are cheaper ones that are decent.
    ATi Radeon if you want lots of features, image quality etc.; speed lover stick with gf2, maybe one of those ASUS cards with some features.

    Get brand name RAM like Micron, Corsair, Mushkin ...

    DSL rules (had about 10 months now), guess I'm spoiled had a cable modem around a couple years ago. DSL was here back in Nov. '96.

    By Fwank September 18, 2000, 10:05 PM

    quote:Originally posted by Bassthe1st:
    I would suggest you change the GeForce II for a ATI Radeon 64Mg VIVO (or AIW) since I think it is of better quality. And why the hell are you getting a second monitor ? If you want to use both at the same time, you'll need a bad 3D Matrox or a slow Geforce II MX; but I really think you need a second monitor when wou have a 21".


    The second monitor would be so I could use ICQ, mIRC, watch the stocks, look at porn, and play a game on the 21" at the same time.

    By Fwank September 18, 2000, 10:12 PM

    quote:Originally posted by joe:
    I'd drop the CPU a notch or two since the price premium isn't worth it.
    Abit KT7, but A7V will do.
    Natural Pro keyboard
    Any Epson or HP printer.
    Maybe Umax scanner, but there are cheaper ones that are decent.
    ATi Radeon if you want lots of features, image quality etc.; speed lover stick with gf2, maybe one of those ASUS cards with some features.

    Get brand name RAM like Micron, Corsair, Mushkin ...

    DSL rules (had about 10 months now), guess I'm spoiled had a cable modem around a couple years ago. DSL was here back in Nov. '96.

    http://www.sharkyforums.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000084.html You can find a little story about Natural Pro keyboard's I posted 20 min ago there. UBB Code sucks. I will go with Corsair because they have been good to me so far. My current printer is from Epson and its a royal piece of shit, well its four years old, so I won't be getting one from them.

    By macutty September 18, 2000, 10:29 PM

    If your going to go balls deep, I would change a few things, I just picked up a new system and just cooks! I used the Asus P3C-S (onboard U160 controller), PIII 933, 128m Samsung ECC RDRAM, 2x Seagate Cheetah X15 U160 15000/RPM (3.9ms is sooo worth it!) the rest of the components I already had. I paid $2500 CND or about $1650 USD for the CPU, MB, ram and HD's vs. $1370 USD for the system you've laid out. I don't know you may be aprtial to AMD but I tell you this thing is sooo fast! (getting ready to benchmark later this week, will post scores if your interested).


    Food for thought.....

    By KR02 September 18, 2000, 10:37 PM

    Id get a dual 900 mhz Thunderbird setup w/512 megs of ram. Also, i posted this before - WHY DO PEOPLE BUYING ULTIMATE GAMING RIGS INSIST ON WASTING MONEY ON THE SBLIVE PLATINUM??? Just get the Xgamer (if you insist on not getting the value that is)!!!

    By rytheman September 18, 2000, 10:44 PM

    WHY DO PEOPLE BUYING ULTIMATE GAMING RIGS INSIST ON WASTING MONEY ON THE SBLIVE PLATINUM??? Just get the Xgamer (if you insist on not getting the value that is)!!!

    It is truly better is it not? All i have seen is amazing reviews for it and that the live drive is so damn nice, it cant be a POS like you are always saying. It isn't the exact same as the Value either.

    By Fwank September 19, 2000, 12:57 PM

    quote:Originally posted by KR02:
    Id get a dual 900 mhz Thunderbird setup w/512 megs of ram. Also, i posted this before - WHY DO PEOPLE BUYING ULTIMATE GAMING RIGS INSIST ON WASTING MONEY ON THE SBLIVE PLATINUM??? Just get the Xgamer (if you insist on not getting the value that is)!!!

    My current computer currently has a 4 gig HD with 1.7 gigs of MP3s. Thats why I need the best possible soundcard.

    By Arcadian September 19, 2000, 01:46 PM

    quote:Originally posted by macutty:
    If your going to go balls deep, I would change a few things, I just picked up a new system and just cooks! I used the Asus P3C-S (onboard U160 controller), PIII 933, 128m Samsung ECC RDRAM, 2x Seagate Cheetah X15 U160 15000/RPM (3.9ms is sooo worth it!) the rest of the components I already had. I paid $2500 CND or about $1650 USD for the CPU, MB, ram and HD's vs. $1370 USD for the system you've laid out. I don't know you may be aprtial to AMD but I tell you this thing is sooo fast! (getting ready to benchmark later this week, will post scores if your interested).

    Food for thought.....

    Yeah, make sure you post those scores... I am esspecially interested in the improvement of the overall system based on the hard drives. By the way, do you have them in RAID 0 configuration?

    Also, can you list the prices you paid for each item individually... I am interested in the prices for the MB and HDDs more specifically.

    By mpitts September 19, 2000, 02:08 PM

    quote:Originally posted by Fwank:
    My current computer currently has a 4 gig HD with 1.7 gigs of MP3s. Thats why I need the best possible soundcard.

    You are kidding, right?

    By Rick_James9 September 19, 2000, 02:24 PM

    If I'm spending that kind of money I'm going to have Falcon build me a system that will be faster than what you have http://www.falcon-nw.com/ and be cheaper.

    By mpitts September 19, 2000, 03:30 PM

    quote:Originally posted by Rick_James9:
    If I'm spending that kind of money I'm going to have Falcon build me a system that will be faster than what you have http://www.falcon-nw.com/ and be cheaper.


    If it were me spending the money, I would build it myself and probably smoke anything that Falcon could put together.

    By Fwank September 19, 2000, 04:06 PM

    quote:Originally posted by mpitts:
    You are kidding, right?

    No, I really do have a shitty 4 gig HD.

    By Fwank September 19, 2000, 04:09 PM

    quote:Originally posted by Rick_James9:
    If I'm spending that kind of money I'm going to have Falcon build me a system that will be faster than what you have http://www.falcon-nw.com/ and be cheaper.


    If I was to have anyone other then myself build it I would go with http://www.alienware.com

    By mpitts September 19, 2000, 04:25 PM

    quote:Originally posted by Fwank:
    No, I really do have a shitty 4 gig HD.

    heheh..

    I have a 1GB laying around here somewhere. I remember when I had my P100 with a 540 and 420 in it back in the day. My friends were all so envious of my near-GB. hahahah

    By mpitts September 19, 2000, 04:26 PM

    quote:Originally posted by Fwank:

    If I was to have anyone other then myself build it I would go with http://www.alienware.com

    The AlienWare PC's are pretty damn cool looking, I must say. But I am a DIY kind of guy.

    By Fwank September 19, 2000, 04:55 PM

    quote:Originally posted by mpitts:
    heheh..

    I have a 1GB laying around here somewhere. I remember when I had my P100 with a 540 and 420 in it back in the day. My friends were all so envious of my near-GB. hahahah


    I spent alot of time at a friends house because he had a computer and I didn't. I remember how he was when he got his first hard drive. I didn't know or care wtf a hard drive was I just wanted him to shut up and let me play Leisure Suit Larry or Kings Quest or whatever adventure game he had. Damn it I hate thinking of my past, I wish Monkey Island 4 was out.

    By Rick_James9 September 19, 2000, 04:58 PM

    quote:Originally posted by Fwank:

    If I was to have anyone other then myself build it I would go with http://www.alienware.com

    Well, if you know so little about hardware wouldn't make more sense to use either vendor?

    By Fwank September 19, 2000, 05:00 PM

    quote:Originally posted by mpitts:
    The AlienWare PC's are pretty damn cool looking, I must say. But I am a DIY kind of guy.


    Yea the black monitor and cases look ****ing cool. I think I will spray paint my case black or pink and put flowers or flames on it. This will be the first PC I build myself. I have 6 guides and I was good with legos as a kid so hopefully I won't break to much stuff. I just need to break the habbit of pulling the legos/hardware apart with my teeth.

    By Rick_James9 September 19, 2000, 05:00 PM

    quote:Originally posted by Rick_James9:
    Well, if you know so little about hardware wouldn't make more sense to use either vendor? Or are you just playing geek games just to get some attention?

    By Fwank September 19, 2000, 05:02 PM

    quote:Originally posted by Rick_James9:
    Well, if you know so little about hardware wouldn't make more sense to use either vendor?

    I like doing stuff my way. Besides I have to learn some way.

    By Hoss September 19, 2000, 10:55 PM

    Nice system dude, however you did leave a few items out.


    $10, Bear Aspirin extra strength. I would get the big bottle

    $20, Flintstones chewable prozac. Anyone building an AMD system without much knowledge needs this

    $500, Computer desk large enough for 2 monitors especially a 21". Unless you have a folding table your planning on using or maybe the floor.

    $100-150, Battery back up with surge suppressor. Or dont get one so you can post another thread here about how your $5000 computer blew up in the last thunderstorm you had.

    $20, Ear muffs for the tornado case. I work with ariplanes so I understand noise and that case has some.

    Sounds like you dont love your money so have at it. And do get the platinum sound card, they may have a game to play in case you dont have any money left to buy one.

    Hoss

    By itallushrt September 20, 2000, 05:24 AM

    quote:Originally posted by Fwank:
    For the past four days I have been spending all of my free time reading up on something I know very little about. Hardware. Four days messing with something hard? Damn the ladies must call me "Iron Man". Anyways my budget is $5000 and here is what I have came up with:

    I think you should keep using your current box and buy a car and get laid instead of buying all that junk.

    $700.00, Processor: AMD Athlon Thunderbird 1.1GHz Socket A CPU
    $150.00, Motherboard: ASUS A7V
    $250.00, Video Card: ?????? Geforce2 GTS
    $320.00, RAM: PC133 CAS2 256mb
    $130.00, DVD-ROM: Pioneer DVD-115 16x DVD-ROM
    $290.00, CD-RW: Plexwriter 12/10/32 CD-RW
    $200.00, Hard Drive: IBM Deskstar 75GXP 45.0GB HD ATA-5 7200RPM 3.5LP 9.5MS
    $1060.00, Monitor: Sony CPD-G500 21IN 19.8VIS FD .24MM AG 2048X1536
    $300.00, 2nd Monitor: Optiquest Q95 19IN
    $250.00, Speakers: Klipsch Pro Media speakers
    $150.00, Sound Card: Sound Blaster Live! Platinum SC 32BIT Live Drive
    $190.00, Case: 3D Cool Tornado 1000 Mid-Tower ATX w/300W Power Supply
    $10.00, Floppy Drive: Samsung 3.5 1.44MB
    $25.00, Keyboard: Microsoft Natural Keyboard Elite
    $40.00, Mouse: Logitech Optical Mouseman Wheel USB PS/2
    $85.00, Modem: 3Com #5685 56K v.90(Longing for next July when I can get a cable)
    $20.00, Mouse Pad: sUrface 1030
    $250, OS: Windows 2000 Professional
    $???.??, Printer: ???????
    $???.??, Scanner: ???????
    Total(without printer/scanner): 4420

    I have yet to decide on what GeForce to get, I want one fully loaded with every possible feature. Also I am hoping to get a scanner and printer with this 5k. Well anything you think I should change? Suggestion on printer, scanner, or 3D card? How much wood can a wood chuck chuck if a wood chuck could chuck wood?

    By Fwank September 20, 2000, 06:45 AM

    quote:Originally posted by Hoss:
    Nice system dude, however you did leave a few items out.


    $10, Bear Aspirin extra strength. I would get the big bottle

    $20, Flintstones chewable prozac. Anyone building an AMD system without much knowledge needs this

    $500, Computer desk large enough for 2 monitors especially a 21". Unless you have a folding table your planning on using or maybe the floor.

    $100-150, Battery back up with surge suppressor. Or dont get one so you can post another thread here about how your $5000 computer blew up in the last thunderstorm you had.

    $20, Ear muffs for the tornado case. I work with ariplanes so I understand noise and that case has some.

    Sounds like you dont love your money so have at it. And do get the platinum sound card, they may have a game to play in case you dont have any money left to buy one.

    Hoss

    Its not my money. I got $7500 to get a new PC and notebook. I already have a good desk shaped like a L. Um, I designed the desk myself too, my step father built it. Its a good desk it supports my monitor and tv with plenty of room for two more monitors. I am still not sure about getting 2 monitors on my new PC, I might just get two phone lines put in and use my current PC untill I can hook them both up to a cable modem.

    By siliconeyes September 20, 2000, 07:06 AM

    I think he is talking about you buying a better sound card for MP3z rather than the 4 gig drive.

    quote:Originally posted by Fwank:
    No, I really do have a shitty 4 gig HD.

    By cocokrisp September 20, 2000, 03:58 PM

    Well if you are a gamer DO NOT GET Win2000. Save yourself a few bucks and get Windows Me (plus Windows Me has better performace in games). Why people think 2000 is good for gaming is beyond me.

    By Fwank September 20, 2000, 04:50 PM

    quote:Originally posted by siliconeyes:
    I think he is talking about you buying a better sound card for MP3z rather than the 4 gig drive.

    Its called humor. Actually he was asking if I really had 1.7 gigs of MP3's which up untill three months ago when someone gave me a burner was the truth. Now I have .9 gig of mp3s with the rest on cds.

    By Fwank September 20, 2000, 04:55 PM

    quote:Originally posted by cocokrisp:
    Well if you are a gamer DO NOT GET Win2000. Save yourself a few bucks and get Windows Me (plus Windows Me has better performace in games). Why people think 2000 is good for gaming is beyond me.


    My computer is not just for gaming, although that is as important then the other stuff I do. The Win2000 I have on this PC was givin to me by a friend because he said it would help me because its WinNT based and shit. I dunno I'm not very smart. It has worked and I figure I might as well buy the cd since I have the money to blow.

    By Ratchet September 20, 2000, 05:40 PM

    First of all, there is no physical difference between the Platinum Live! and the XGamer Live! other than the fact that the Platinum comes with the Live drive (which you can buy as an add-on for the XGamer later down the road if you want). The upside to the XGamer is it comes with some really good full quality games and it's well over $100 cheaper.

    Second, how are you planning on hooking up 2 monitors with one GeForce2 video card? Last I checked, you either needed 2 videocards or a dualhead Matrox. Not to mention the fact that you won't be able to play games on one monitor and do all the stuff you want to do on the second monitor at the same time. Unless I missed someting, the only way you could do that was to play your games in a window, and since you're getting a 21" Sony, I'd be -very- disappointed if you were planning on playing Quake3 or Unreal Tourny like that!!

    If you insist on Win2k, then I suggest you at least make room on that big ol' hard drive to dual boot with Win98 when that game you oh so want to play won't run under Win2k.

    By Fwank September 20, 2000, 06:08 PM

    quote:Originally posted by Ratchet:
    First of all, there is no physical difference between the Platinum Live! and the XGamer Live! other than the fact that the Platinum comes with the Live drive (which you can buy as an add-on for the XGamer later down the road if you want). The upside to the XGamer is it comes with some really good full quality games and it's well over $100 cheaper.

    Second, how are you planning on hooking up 2 monitors with one GeForce2 video card? Last I checked, you either needed 2 videocards or a dualhead Matrox. Not to mention the fact that you won't be able to play games on one monitor and do all the stuff you want to do on the second monitor at the same time. Unless I missed someting, the only way you could do that was to play your games in a window, and since you're getting a 21" Sony, I'd be -very- disappointed if you were planning on playing Quake3 or Unreal Tourny like that!!

    If you insist on Win2k, then I suggest you at least make room on that big ol' hard drive to dual boot with Win98 when that game you oh so want to play won't run under Win2k.

    I am going to update what I am going to buy soon. I was hoping I could set it up with two monoters without reading up on that now I know I can't. I really only wanted it so if Shadowbane or Anarchy Online makes it so you cannot run it in a window or alt+tab like EverCrap did then I would want to use icq and play the game at the same time. Guess I will be getting two phonelines, one for both my PCs.

    By Rick_James9 September 20, 2000, 06:16 PM

    quote:Originally posted by Fwank:

    My computer is not just for gaming, although that is as important then the other stuff I do. The Win2000 I have on this PC was givin to me by a friend because he said it would help me because its WinNT based and shit. I dunno I'm not very smart. It has worked and I figure I might as well buy the cd since I have the money to blow.

    First, I don't even know why I'm still posting on this topic? But, what the hell. First, your friend is a fool. Sorry, I don't know any other way to say it(I have to be me). W2k is NT 5 without all the bugs which took a long time to get out. After the bugs(I mean Major bugs!)MS decided to call it Windows 2000. Even with SP1 it still has problems. Too many people forget about the "workstation" part of NT workstation. It is a robust, ===>working OS. But, in defense of MS they have NEVER said W2k,NT 4.x or 3.x is for Home/Multimedia/gaming use. But, people like yourself, get upset when one day some software doesn't work correctly because they are using a ====>Workstation O/S. I use W2K and NT 4.0 to Admin my servers and do WORK<====. But, the problem is if you don't know what you're doing the NT system goes to Blue screen heaven. Then the tears start

    By Fwank September 20, 2000, 07:10 PM

    quote:Originally posted by Rick_James9:
    First, I don't even know why I'm still posting on this topic? But, what the hell. First, your friend is a fool. Sorry, I don't know any other way to say it(I have to be me). W2k is NT 5 without all the bugs which took a long time to get out. After the bugs(I mean Major bugs!)MS decided to call it Windows 2000. Even with SP1 it still has problems. Too many people forget about the "workstation" part of NT workstation. It is a robust, ===>working OS. But, in defense of MS they have NEVER said W2k,NT 4.x or 3.x is for Home/Multimedia/gaming use. But, people like yourself, get upset when one day some software doesn't work correctly because they are using a ====>Workstation O/S. I use W2K and NT 4.0 to Admin my servers and do WORK<====. But, the problem is if you don't know what you're doing the NT system goes to Blue screen heaven. Then the tears start

    I spend most of my time editing graphics, movies, writing, along with a little C programming. Games kinda come second even though I consider myself a hardcore gamer. The programming and editing was supposed to be help by getting Win2000.

    By NeedMoreSpeed September 25, 2000, 07:38 PM

    Okay, I was trying to resist posting but couldn't. This thread should be renamed money to burn. What the heck is everyone doing with this kinda hardware....there just isn't a Game around that needs this. And if your building so you'll never have to upgrade forget it cause this great stuff will all be junk in 3 years.


    quote:Originally posted by Fwank:
    [b]Updated info: I have updated what I am thinking of getting. First, after finding out my idea wouldn't work I took out the second monitor which gave up $300 which I replaced with another 256mb of RAM. Although I have had no problems with Windows 2000 on my current PC after reading up on it for 2 hours I have decided to go with ME. Besides Office Depot gives $300 worth of useless crap if you buy ME. Ill give all the greetings card maker, label maker, atlas, etc junk to my Mom because she likes that shit. Ill keep the free speakers and webcam. I also chose which 3D card I will be getting. I still might go with a ATI Radeon 32MB DDR though. I also added a MPEG-2/DVD decoder card. I might change to a Microsoft IntelliMouse Explorer depending on which feels better in my hand. I just hate to spend $40 on a mouse considering in the last two years I have broke six or eight. Unless anyone notices something I should change all I need is to pick out which scanner and printer to get. I am willing to spend $500 total on the printer and scanner.

    $700.00, Processor: AMD Athlon Thunderbird 1.1GHz Socket A CPU
    $150.00, Motherboard: ASUS A7V
    $250.00, Video Card: Hercules 3D Prophet II GTS GeForce2 32MB DDR RAM TV OUT DVD Playback
    $65.00, MPEG-2/DVD decoder card: RealMagic Hollywood Plus PCI
    $640.00, RAM: Corsair PC133 CAS2 256mb x 2
    $130.00, DVD-ROM: Pioneer DVD-115 16x DVD-ROM
    $290.00, CD-RW: Plexwriter 12/10/32 CD-RW
    $200.00, Hard Drive: IBM Deskstar 75GXP 45.0GB HD ATA-5 7200RPM 3.5LP 9.5MS
    $1060.00, Monitor: Sony CPD-G500 21IN 19.8VIS FD .24MM AG 2048X1536
    $250.00, Speakers: Klipsch Pro Media speakers
    $150.00, Sound Card: Sound Blaster Live! Platinum SC 32BIT Live Drive
    $190.00, Case: 3D Cool Tornado 1000 Mid-Tower ATX w/300W Power Supply
    $10.00, Floppy Drive: Samsung 3.5 1.44MB
    $25.00, Keyboard: Microsoft Natural Keyboard Elite
    $40.00, Mouse: Logitech Optical Mouseman Wheel USB PS/2
    $85.00, Modem: 3Com #5685 56K v.90(Longing for next July when I can get a cable)
    $20.00, Mouse Pad: sUrface 1030
    $180, OS: Windows ME
    $???.??, Printer: ???????
    $???.??, Scanner: ???????
    Total(without printer/scanner): 4430

    By jmil24 September 25, 2000, 09:12 PM

    agreed. It will be worthless down the road-- why waste $5000 or so on a computer that will soon be outdated? The logic seems to flawed on this.

    My suggestion to you: buy a mid-range system now for MUCH CHEAPER and you will get quite impressive performance, guaranteed. $5000 is well over doing it, IMO.

    By slick September 25, 2000, 09:23 PM

    LOL
    well i think i will put in my word now! For get the 2nd monitor..Lets just go dule p3 933's and then realy spend some money.. and get at Least 3 scsi HDD's so you can set it up as Raid 5..But then oh well. thats just what i would do!

    By KR02 September 25, 2000, 09:55 PM

    THE sblive Platinum is the exact same chipset as the other live cards. The only difference the Plat has is the Digital Speaker output (Xgamer has an analog-digital adapter), and the livedrive and useless software.


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