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  • SharkyForums.Com - Print: what is HSR?

    what is HSR?
    By Ecko84 December 05, 2000, 11:30 PM

    what is this HSR i been hearing about on the voodoos? is it some kind of chip or something? all i heard was that it is great or something.....any input is appreciated

    By Ecko84 December 05, 2000, 11:57 PM

    well im off to bed, got my permit test in the morning......then i gotta goto school.....i will probably check back here in 7th hour and then when i get back home. later all........please respond

    By SlartyB December 06, 2000, 01:13 AM

    HSR is Hidden Surface Removal. Just between you and me, I don't think anybody else knew what it meant - that's why nobody said anything

    The reason it is so good is that it attempts to remove triangles that are going to be obscured (and therefore not visible) before they get into the redering pipeline. The theory is that if you get rid of them early, you won't waste time rendering something you are never going to see.

    By Ecko84 December 06, 2000, 04:13 PM

    ahh....sounds cool.....my geforce 2 mx better do that....hehe.....i can't wait for my new cpu

    heres what it will be...
    http://sawc.tripod.com/computerupgrd.htm

    By iamsostupid December 07, 2000, 12:50 AM

    no GF2MX's dont do that. Radeons do though. ATi's technology is called HyperZ, which is much more affective than HSR.

    By DaveB3D December 07, 2000, 01:09 AM

    iamsostupid,

    The name fits you well as you clearly do not know what you are talking about.

    HSR, or hidden surface removal is anything that doesn't render hidden surfaces. This includes something as basic as a Z-buffer. The more correct definition for what you guys are talking about is occlusion culling.

    Now occlusion culling comes in a variety of forms ranging from scene capture, to early Z checks to heirarchicial Z-buffer.

    Scene capture is deferred rendering. This is what PowerVR and 3dfx's mosaic technology use. It is far and away the most effective way of doing it. You sort the geometry in the scene and render one tile at a time, completely eliminating all hidden surfaces. There are other advantages to this type of architecture, but I won't go into those.

    HyperZ uses a limited Hierarchicial Z. It isn't the most effective implementation but it helps. Unfortunately, for a heirarchicial Z to be as effective as deferred rendering, you need to be able to store the entire scene in embedded memory. Of course this would make the embedded memory requirment huge, and make the chip insanely large and expensive. This is YEARS off, and even then it won't have the price advantage that deferred rendering will have.


    The other thing is early Z checks. This can be done with a heirarchical Z. Watch for NV20 to do early Z checks. My understanding of the specific implementation is that they run Z checks off of a buffer. This has advantages and disadvantages. It will be a bit better than HyperZ. Unfortunately, to get anything real out of it developers will need to write to it, and that isn't likely to happen.

    I hope this helps to clear things up.

    By 311_man December 07, 2000, 01:51 AM

    where did my pants go?

    By BuggyLoop December 07, 2000, 02:03 AM

    dave, i think what stupid meant is hyper-z is a kind of hsr, not as effective as kyro's hsr or maybe v5 (didnt read much on v5 hsr yet) But it still do the same basics in a certain way.

    I cant wait to see radeon 2

    By BuggyLoop December 07, 2000, 02:17 AM

    Of course this would make the embedded memory requirment huge, and make the chip insanely large and expensive.

    Btw isnt that why they put fast-Z clear on radeon ?
    yea i know what you mean, hyper-z technology wont be 100% effective till years, but i think someone had to start it

    By DaveB3D December 07, 2000, 03:32 AM

    na, fast Z clears does very little. The problem comes from frame-buffer read/writes. Deferred rendering doesn't have this issue.. That though is why traditional architectures need the entire buffer in embedded memory... so they can access it very quickly and not have to worry about bandwidth.

    By FaTs December 07, 2000, 05:16 AM

    Will my gayforce 2 ultra do HSR , or will it do it in later driver releases

    By DaveB3D December 07, 2000, 10:56 AM

    Not likely. Don't expect any occlusion culling support for anything other than NV20. I'm 99% certain that any occlusion culling in the upcoming drivers is NV20 specific.

    By Humus December 07, 2000, 11:23 AM

    quote:Originally posted by BuggyLoop:
    dave, i think what stupid meant is hyper-z is a kind of hsr, not as effective as kyro's hsr or maybe v5 (didnt read much on v5 hsr yet) But it still do the same basics in a certain way.

    I cant wait to see radeon 2

    You could say that HyperZ is a passive form of HSR. A HSR without the depthsort.

    By 100%TotallyNude December 07, 2000, 05:43 PM

    quote:Originally posted by DaveB3D:
    HSR, or hidden surface removal is anything that doesn't render hidden surfaces. This includes something as basic as a Z-buffer. The more correct definition for what you guys are talking about is occlusion culling.

    Now occlusion culling comes in a variety of forms ranging from scene capture, to early Z checks to heirarchicial Z-buffer...

    THAT IS THE MOST REDICULOUS LINE OF BS I'VE EVER READ ANYWHERE...


    Just kidding, I have no idea what you people are talking about. Press on Dave...

    By DaveB3D December 07, 2000, 06:40 PM

    I was almost like "wtf?". Then I read the second line.

    By mttoshi December 08, 2000, 11:32 AM

    Funny! Sometimes this forum get a little technical!

    By Pinky December 08, 2000, 12:48 PM

    what the hell is a "gayforce 2?"

    By 100%TotallyNude December 08, 2000, 01:06 PM

    quote:Originally posted by Pinky:
    what the hell is a "gayforce 2?"

    I suspect he was talking about the geforce2, and I also suspect he has "issues" with it.


    By cracKrock December 08, 2000, 01:56 PM

    LOL! Heh, this is an amusing thread.

    Seriously, I thought that fast-z clears were really helpful?

    By Pinky December 08, 2000, 01:59 PM

    hehe I was joking

    By Humus December 08, 2000, 06:15 PM

    quote:Originally posted by cracKrock:
    LOL! Heh, this is an amusing thread.

    Seriously, I thought that fast-z clears were really helpful?

    It is helpful. Anandtech showed in some benchmarks that the difference with if on and off were about 20%.

    By DaveB3D December 08, 2000, 06:19 PM

    It helps a little...

    The thing I find most funny about HyperZ though is how ATI lies about it. They claim they remove all depth complexity when in reality they don't even come close.


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