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  • SharkyForums.Com - Print: Rampage to get 64bit rendering?

    Rampage to get 64bit rendering?
    By Humus November 01, 2000, 10:33 AM

    I read an interesting article at http://www.3dpulpit.com/Articles/tarolli_2000.html

    The 3dfx guy talks a lot of increased pixel accuracy. Carmacks wish of 64bit textures are mentioned and they also talk about the interval of [0,1] present in lighting equations (which causes only passive filtering to be possibly applied) which should be solved (which implies 64bit floating point textures). I guess 3dfx have some 64bit loving coming to us
    I really hope it is so!

    By Vilu November 01, 2000, 10:40 AM

    Rumours:
    Overbright rendering, where lighting can be in greater than 0 to 1-range, to be used with multiple lights and shadows(?)...
    Possibly higher internal precision, doing multiple passes without outputting until the pixel is finished. It's entirely possible with small caches and loopbacks. Maybe 36 bit internal rendering, then dithered to 32 bits, or TRUE 32bit rendering, where alpha is used for extra colour precision. Todays 32-bit rendering is really 24-bits with alpha-padding for the comfort and speed...

    By Humus November 01, 2000, 05:54 PM

    But how can we get overbright rendering without extended texture color precision? The solution of having extended color precision by using the 32bit like 11bit read + 11bit green + 10bit blue really isn't the solution. Well, it's not a useless texture format but source alpha is a essential part of the rendering.
    It seamed so clear to me that he talked with 64bit textures in mind.

    By anthraxx November 01, 2000, 08:35 PM

    I hope 3dfx has some thing coming our way that is competition for Nvidia and ATI etc...

    By KeeperMarius November 01, 2000, 10:50 PM

    Humus -

    The closest thing that comes to my mind is what 3dfx has already patented:

    M-Buffer

    The majority of us over at 3dfxGamers think that M-Buffer has something to do with SAGE, or SCALABLE ARCHITECTURE GEOMETRY ENGINE if you spell out the acronyms. I'm sure you know what it already is. None of us have any idea what the M-Buffer will incorporate, but the "Overbright Rendering" mentioned in the interview would probably be something controlled by the Lighting Unit found on SAGE, hence T & 'L'.

    Like the 22bit rendering that is actually really freakin' awesome on the Voodoo5, REAL 32bit color like Vilu said could become a real possibility, as well as some nifty lighting effects.

    By Humus November 02, 2000, 12:30 PM

    Well KeeperMarius.
    I don't know anythong about the M-buffer, but the name doesn't make it sound like it has something to do with T&L, unless it has to do with some technology to do tile based rendering with good performance even with many polygons (perhaps it buffers it in a smart way or something ...)

    Anyway, the lighting equations in OpenGL and in D3D are locked to the [0,1] interval (well, with a little hack you can get [0,2]).
    That's nothing the T&L unit can change. Well, it could change it but it wouldn't follow the API specifications. With an OpenGL extension it could be supported though. This combined with per-pixel lightning would be really awesome!

    But the "real 32 bit" solution ... well, could be useable for some applications but many games need destination alpha ... and in that case it will be out of question.

    By zombor November 02, 2000, 01:13 PM

    64bit color? man, i remember when i first oggled over 24bit color! hehe

    By GTaudiophile November 02, 2000, 01:16 PM

    Wouldn't it be funny if 3Dfx, though unlikely, were to come out with some revolutionary product that did the same for modern 3D graphics as the Voodoo1 did a few years ago? I guess we'd all look pretty dumb.

    By The Grinch November 02, 2000, 01:21 PM

    quote:Originally posted by zombor:
    64bit color? man, i remember when i first oggled over 24bit color! hehe

    Not 64bit color, 64bit textures. But either way... what he said. It's all mumbo jumbo anyway.

    By Humus November 02, 2000, 05:06 PM

    64 bit framebuffer isn't a bad thing either

    By KeeperMarius November 02, 2000, 08:41 PM

    "I don't know anythong about the M-buffer, but the name doesn't make it sound like it has something to do with T&L."

    The T-Buffer doesn't sound like anything to do with the VSA-100 chips either. You know 3dfx... Come to think of it, where did Voodoo come from? I mean the Geforce actually has some meaning to do with it. I still think the M-Buffer has some affiliation with 3dfx's upcoming SAGE unit, which is a scalable external T&L engine.

    "That's nothing the T&L unit can change. Well, it could change it but it wouldn't follow the API specifications."

    The T-Buffer and 3dfx's RGSS FSAA doesn't follow API specifications, it bypasses it. Same goes with 3dfx's 22bit rendering. It has nothing to do with the API, it's done by the T-Buffer unit. I'm guessing 3dfx and the use of the M-Buffer will add some really nifty effects that can be done in hardware without having to be coded. They did it with the Voodoo5, didn't they?

    "But the "real 32 bit" solution ... well, could be useable for some applications but many games need destination alpha ... and in that case it will be out of question."

    True.

    "Wouldn't it be funny if 3Dfx, though unlikely, were to come out with some revolutionary product that did the same for modern 3D graphics as the Voodoo1 did a few years ago? I guess we'd all look pretty dumb."

    Rampage is completely new architecture. The VSA-100 is really an upgraded version of the Voodoo3 core, which itself is just an upgraded version of the Voodoo2 core, which itself again is just a rehash of the Voodoo1 core. There will most likely be some key features found in Rampage that won't be able to be performed by the NV20 chip, such as QuadTexture rendering in a single pass. I think some of the features found in Rampage won't be available until DX9 comes out, but that's probably because they couldn't get it into DX8. Hehe, go figure.

    Either way, you can expect the big features found in todays hardware, other than a Voodoo5 of course, that will be found on Rampage. Things of course: Pixel Shading, most likely Bump Mapping of some sort, and other various features heavily touted but rarely ever used. Propoganda game sake of course.

    Faster/better FSAA was mentioned, as well as upgraded texture compression, (FXT2?). Speed is something of the other matter though. I'm thinking Rampage won't exactly be the fastests card available, but maybe the most advanced and "Future Proof". There are a lot of features 3dfx is keeping very tight lipped about that none of here know about.

    I guess we'll just have to wait and see, shall we?

    By Robo November 02, 2000, 10:50 PM

    Come to think of it, where did Voodoo come from?

    because the first time someone saw a Voodoo1 using glide compared to what was available, it was "like seeing voodoo magic" or something

    :P

    seriously. (bad recreation of) a true story


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